There is a lot of talk around about whether online dating is right for everyone or whether all men want a relationship or want to be dominant. I was thinking about this. For me, it is not so much that I think everyone needs a male dominated relationship or a HOH relationship or what not. It's not that I think that egalitarian relationships don't work. I think they work really well for people who want that kind of relationship, just as relationships work well for people who want them. And I don't know what most people want or what is the majority. What I was thinking about is not that everyone should get online dating so that they can be happy like me. What I was wondering about was how many people could be happy or happier if they were online daters. I think our culture (American culture, that is, as that is the culture I live in) is really geared toward the idea that the only acceptable model of relationships is an equal one where everything is shared fifty-fifty down to alternating nights getting up with the baby and splitting housework right down the middle. I know that I labored under the idea that this was the ideal for many years and we were terribly unhappy for it.

Don't get me wrong, I understand the need to teach people what abusive relationships might look like, but have we gone too far? What makes me sort of sad is not that I think that male domination is natural and if only every woman would get her husband to be the HOH we could all live happily in a divorce-free world. What makes me sort of sad is that the majority of American culture is not aware of what a male-dominated relationship can be like. If I were to tell most of the people I know, including my family, the nature of my relationship, they would assume I was being abused and controlled and that is even without the spanking coming into it at all, really. They wouldn't see that his headship of our family doesn't just mean that he gets whatever he wants (he doesn't). It doesn't mean that he is a selfish pig who orders me around and never lets me talk (he's not and he doesn't). It doesn't mean that he is a bully who likes to push around little girls to make himself feel big. It doesn't mean that I am a weak-willed doormat who lets her man walk all over her (I'm not and you would think that the people who raised me to be this way would know that, but, oh, well). It doesn't mean that I bow to his every whim and that my needs are of no account.

If I were to tell the great majority of people I know IRL that my husband makes the rules and has authority to make the final decisions, they would, for the most part, assume I was being controlled. I will concede that. I am being controlled and I love it. They probably would not automatically assume that I am also cherished, protected, considered and adored. They would not see that he is obligated by his ownership of me just as much as I am. If I told many people that I ask my husband's permission for many everyday things, like buying lunch at a restaurant or using my debit card even to buy groceries, they would see a tyrannical dictator lording over his oppressed housefrau. What they wouldn't see is a lovingly involved husband and his happily possessed wife who are crazy about each other and fall more in love every day. Many people wouldn't even see that as a possible outcome. They would only see me being abused and if I told them I am absolutely happy they would assume it is because I am brainwashed. That is why I wish our culture was different. I don't wish that women were required to submit to their husbands because that is the natural order of things. I don't know anything about the natural order. I wish that our culture was open to all the possibilities of what a relationship can be. I wish that we, as a society, could see that consenting adults can structure their relationship in whatever way makes them both happy and it's totally healthy.

The issue you brought up, the desire for society in general to understand what a pleasure a Taken in Hand relationship can be, makes for an interesting reflection. I think I understand the feelings. I've had them myself, but when I consider them, I usually wish things were back the way they used to be. In fact, the acceptance you described was the norm in the days of my early life. It was the woman who did not do as her husband told her to do that was in minority. It was not unusual for a woman to be spanked by her husband or boyfriend. Just look at all of the examples in the older movies. Remember when Desi took Lucy over his knee? Remember how their relationship was structured? No one howled spousal abuse. It was widely accepted as the way it should be. Tucked within that were true examples of abuse. As society attempted to address those issues and protect those that needed protection, the pendulum swung. As it always does, it swung all the way to the other side. It has teetered there for some time now, but rest assured, as it always does, it will gently swing back and find a balance. I believe within my lifetime, I will see the return of general acceptance of the kinds of relationships you describe. It will still allow for those who are being abused to be protected, but it will also allow for those of us who wish to live this life, to be fully accepted.

I think it is important to remember that the films in which wives get spanked by their husbands are usually comedies, not necessarily meant to be taken that seriously. Desi may have spanked Lucy in a couple of episodes of I Love Lucy when he lost his temper with her, but there is no indication in the series that there is any formalized DD relationship between them, the spankings are spontaneous spur-of-the-moment occurrences. Nor do they have the slightest effect upon Lucy's behavior. I am always puzzled when people bring up 'I Love Lucy' as an example of a TV program which shows a man with authority, because Lucy never takes the slightest notice of anything Desi says in this program. She continues to go her own sweet way regardless of what Desi says to her (it would have been a very dull program if she hadn't). Although it may have been nominally the norm for women to obey their husbands in the past, I doubt if wive were always as happily docile in the past as all that. There have always been plenty of women around who did not do as they were told, just as there have always been plenty of men around who didn't want to be authority figures. And I doubt if the amount of control that men exercise over their wives in the past was as great as that in many relationships described on this site. when I was a child, in the 60s, I don't remember any women asking their husbands permission to go shopping, for instance. I don't personally yearn for a time when female submissiveness in marriage was taken for granted, I much prefer to live in a society that regards egalitarian marriage as normal. I enjoy having a relationship with my husband, but part of the pleasure of it for me is the fact that it is voluntary, and I don't have to live like that if I don't want to. Nobody, as far as I'm aware, is preventing anyone from living like this if they want to.

I very much understand the point here but personally I think if it was expected of me to submit to whoever I married I would rebel from that role. I don't think I would ever accept being subordinate in my marriage if I felt that this was a moral requirement that society laid on me. I suppose I would prefer my submission to be a gift and to be a special one. Apart from that I don't think all men are capable of being good HoHs. Perhaps it used to be different when there were different expectations on men, but a good 99% of the men I meet, and especially youngish men, don't seem to have any potential as a leader. If taken in hand was the norm feminism would probably happen all over again because someone felt forced into a role they didn't want. At present I find the idea of having a relationship which strays from the norm quite exciting - but maybe that will change. I do think it's sad that there are so many people who are unhappy in their relationships who Taken in Hand could help but that will only happen when Taken in Hand is publicized more.

I do not think that Otter was suggesting that we go to a time when women are expected to submit. I thought she was saying that she wished we lived in a time when women are ACCEPTED when they submit. I agree. I think it is sad that we feel we cannot be open about our relationships. It would be so nice for me to know a neighbour who lived in a taken in hand relationship. It would be so nice to talk over coffee or a beer with a girlfriend who understood and respected how I live. It would be nice for Mike to be able to interact with me how we do behind close doors without raising any eyebrows. It would be nice to be comfortable being who we are and not worrying so much about it all the time. I often worry about how much noise we are making when spanking. Mike likes to joke with me that if I do not stop complaining he is going to take me out on the front porch and spank me in broad daylight just so everyone knows and we do not have to worry anymore. Now he is only joking and would never do such a thing, but somehow it would be nice if someone did not call the police if we did! Maybe things will change, but I doubt it. I have met many people online who I would never have met if it was accepted. Because it is not I have sought out people with like minded ideas to get support from. I have some new friends. Maybe there are some advantages!

If the idea of a man being HOH is so unacceptable in today's society, then why the veritable flood of books advocating that women submit 'Fascinating Womanhood' Surrendered Wife' 'Proper Care and Feeding of Husbands' etc, there are loads of them, and publishers must be making money out of them otherwise they wouldn't keep appearing. People appear to be lapping up the idea. I don't mind people knowing that my husband has the last word on decision making etc, but I certainly wouldn't want to advertise the fact that he spanks me, some things are just too personal.